AMERICAN ISSUES PROJECT

If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.

I bet you thought that if you bought a house, you actually own it and can, with reasonable exceptions, do with it what you want. You probably think that if you want to live in a log cabin, with wood stoves that belch smoke into the air for heat, and an old washer and dryer that don't have those little EnergyStar stickers on them you can because it's your life and your property. You paid for it with money you earned with the sweat of your brow and what the heck is America anyhow if a body can't live in the home they want furnished with the appliances they want?

Ah, silly you. You didn't reckon on the Democratic Party's desire to control every miniscule aspect of your life.

Let me introduce you to a little section of the Waxman-Markey cap-and-trade bill called the "Building Energy Performance Labeling Program". It's section 304 of the bill and it says, basically, that your house belongs to the state. See, the Federal Government really wants a country full of energy-efficient homes, so much so that the bill mandates that new homes be 30 percent more energy efficient than the current building code on the very day the law is signed. That efficiency goes up to 50 percent by 2014 and only goes higher from there, all the way to 2030. That, by the way, is not merely a target but a requirement of the law. New homes must reach those efficiency targets no matter what.

But what does that have to do with current homeowners like you? Well, I'm glad you asked. You're certainly not off the hook, no way, no how. Here's what the Democrats have planned for you. The program requires that states label their buildings so that we can all know how efficient every building (that includes residential and non-residential buildings) is and it requires that the information be made public. To that end, the bill suggests a number of circumstances under which the states could inspect a building, including:

(A) preparation, and public disclosure of the label through filing with tax and title records at the time of--

(i) a building audit conducted with support from Federal or State funds;

(ii) a building energy-efficiency retrofit conducted in response to such an audit;

(iii) a final inspection of major renovations or additions made to a building in accordance with a building permit issued by a local government entity;

(iv) a sale that is recorded for title and tax purposes consistent with paragraph (8);

(v) a new lien recorded on the property for more than a set percentage of the assessed value of the property, if that lien reflects public financial assistance for energy-related improvements to that building; or

(vi) a change in ownership or operation of the building for purposes of utility billing; or

(B) other appropriate means.

Pay close attention to (iii), (iv), and (vi) because those hit you right where you live. What that's saying is the state will be empowered to inspect your home if you want to 1) renovate your house in any way that requires a building permit, 2) sell your house, or 3) change the name of the person responsible for any utility bill.

By now, if you haven't swallowed your tongue and are in need of medical attention, you're probably wondering if there's a penalty for not being in compliance with the new efficiency ratings. The answer is no, and yes. Here's where the bill gets really sneaky. So far as I can tell, there is no direct penalty if your house does not meet the bill's target. However, it does require that the number of buildings inspected by the state meet certain percentage targets and if they do not, the state loses out on a significant portion of the money it could get from Washington. In other words, the bill demands certain things from the states, but ties funding for those demands to compliance with the demands.

Did I say the bill gets sneaky? I was wrong. The bill strong-arms the states like a couple mob heavies leaning on a witness in a Rico trial. In turn, the states are going to put the screws to you, so it gets the billions of dollars Washington is dangling in front of them. So while the Federal government won't directly punish you, it will provide the states with lots and lots of rectangular, green reasons to do so.

And it gets worse. The Federal government has graciously offered to help homeowners with the retrofits the states will force them to do through a program called the Retrofit for Energy and Environmental Purposes (REEP). REEP sets aside a pool of money in each state for property owners who have to turn their polar bear-killing buildings into lean, mean, green machines. But, and I'm sure you've guessed this already, there's a catch. Before I get to that, here's the magic formula (and don't read ahead and spoil the surprise!):

(i) AWARDS- For residential buildings--
(I) support for a free or low-cost detailed building energy audit that prescribes, as part of a energy-reducing measures sufficient to achieve at least a 20 percent reduction in energy use, by providing an incentive equal to the documented cost of such audit, but not more than $200, in addition to any earned by achieving a 20 percent or greater efficiency improvement;
(II) a total of $1,000 for a combination of measures, prescribed in an audit conducted under subclause (I), designed to reduce energy consumption by more than 10 percent, and $2,000 for a combination of measures prescribed in such an audit, designed to reduce energy consumption by more than 20 percent;
(III) $3,000 for demonstrated savings of 20 percent, pursuant to a performance-based building retrofit program; and
(IV) $1,000 for each additional 5 percentage points of energy savings achieved beyond savings for which funding is provided under subclause (II) or (III).

If you want to hit that 50 percent savings mark that all new homes have to hit, then you can get as much as $12,200, including inspection, as you scoop all those awards. That's a pretty good chunk of change that should cover most, if not all of the costs of a retrofit on any moderately-sized older house, right? Easy, peasy, lemon squeezy.

Except for that catch and boy is it a doozy.

(ii) MAXIMUM PERCENTAGE- Awards under clause (i) shall not exceed 50 percent of retrofit costs for each building. For buildings with multiple residential units, awards under clause (i) shall not be greater than 50 percent of the total cost of retrofitting the building, prorated among individual residential units on the basis of relative costs of the retrofit.

Did you get that? You'll be on the hook for half of the cost of the retrofit, no matter what. To get the full effect of that part of the bill, I suggest you visit this web page and click the big yellow button right after you finish reading it.

I think Mark Steyn sums it up rather nicely:

I confess I'm finding it harder and harder to see why you fellows bothered holding a revolution. Under this bill, it will be illegal for me to sell my property to a willing buyer without first bringing it into line with some twerp bureaucrat's arbitrary and ever shifting "environmental" regulations originally designed for California, and which have helped turn the Golden State into the foldin' state, but which are nevertheless now to be applied from Maine to Alaska. And no matter what you spend a couple of years down the road the standards will be "revised" and you'll be out of compliance all over again.

And the very worst thing about all this is that it is only one little bit of what the Democrats in Washington want to do to you. Are you getting a little bit upset yet? If not, here are 49 more things they want to do to you in the name of climate change. I'm sure you can find something in there that might give you a reason to contact your Senator today.

UPDATE: I forgot to mention that I found the nifty linkable form of the bill thanks to this post by Pat who runs the quite good blog And So It Goes in Shreveport. As some of you know, it's very bad mojo not to like to a blogger who provides nifty and/or useful information. Thank you also to those of you who are sending this link around on Twitter. You make a blogger's heart grow three sizes too large this morning!

If this is your first visit to AIP, feel free to leave a comment to say hello (or groan audibly about Henry Waxman's folly of a bill). While you're here, why not take a couple extra minutes to read some of the other good blog posts. The Morning Conservative Reading List is a great place to start (and a reason to visit every day!). From there you can read about Czar Mania, some strange economic polling, and a David Axelrod fact-check beatdown, just for starters.

 UPDATE 2: Melissa Clouthier, AIP columnist and blogger extraordinaire, asks an interesting question

Consider this for a moment. Right now, at this writing, there is a glut of new home supply. Will those homes have to be retrofitted to meet the government's 30% more fuel efficient standards? And how does one magically do this? Already, homes are being built with air-tight windows, special insulation, more efficient air conditioners, etc. What would make it more energy efficient?

 I'll give you a hint: think appliances. Trust me, Section 304 is but a miniscule fraction of the mandates the Democrats want to foist upon you.

Editor's Note: I want to reiterate my thanks to all those who linked, Tweeted, read and commented on this post the other day. He appeared on a Connecticut talk radio show Friday, July 10, 2009, discussing some of the same clarifications from his follow-up to this post, so if you're interested, I encourage you to have a listen. (Clicking that link will open a small window and automatically play the 6-8 minute segment.) If this is your first time at American Issues Project, welcome! We publish exclusive op-edsblog posts daily, so I hope you'll be back. You can submit your own blog posts for our community blog (cross-posting is welcome!) by registering for the site, which you can do automatically with your Facebook or Twitter account if you already have accounts with either of those two sites. You can sign up for email updates about our grassroots efforts in the right-hand sidebar of this page. For on-the-go action alerts, text ENOUGH to 97180. (We promise we won't bug you too much!) If you have any questions about American Issues Project, please post a comment below or contact us via Twitter (@AmericanIssues).


Comments

Right Wing News wrote Cap-N-Trade: Your House Is Not Your Own
on 07-08-2009 9:49 AM

If you live a normal life, or you're a Congressman or Senator, you haven't read the Cap-N-Trade bill, but intrepid Jimmie Bise has and what he found was distressing on so many fronts. First the pain for home builders, an...

Pat wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 11:18 AM

Thanks for the link!  And this is a GREAT post!  I'm linking you back!

Kevin T. Keith wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 12:16 PM

You may have a point. But you're incompetent, wrong, alarmist, and tedious, so I doubt it, and I can't be bothered to do your homework for you.

To begin with, you haven't even read the bill correctly. Section (A)(vi) is not triggered by simply changing the name on a utility bill; it involves selling the building to a new owner, or, for commercial buildings, leasing it to a new operator. Nobody is going to inspect your home if your spouse starts paying the monthly bills.

("Dr." Melissa Clouthier seems to have the same problem. Since the bill mandates energy standards for new homes, it doesn't apply to existing homes. Problem solved, with the careful application of a new technology known as . . . <em>reading comprehension</em>! And as to how new homes can be made more energy-efficient than current ones, let me simply note that her failure of imagination is not an argument against the regulations. It's essentially equivalent to the creationist argument against evolution: she can't think of a way it could work, therefore it's impossible. For her enlightenment, I'll merely mention a few things other than "windows" that aren't currently widely used, but could be: passive solar; active solar and wind, 12-volt lighting, smaller total volumes, multi-generation homes . . .)

As for inspections, the energy assessment is coincident with things that already require inspection and permitting: new construction, renovations, sales, and the like. This just adds another dimension to the assessments already needed, which is something for the inspectors to worry about, not you. As you yourself note, you are not required to do anything in response to the inspection. It's hard to see how this is any burden at all.

As for your suggestion that the government providing subsidies to make energy-efficiency improvements is "like a couple mob heavies leaning on a witness in a Rico trial", I can only surmise that either your local mob heavies are unusually altruistic, or you're full of ***.

Regarding your boo-hooing that the state will only pay you half the cost of renovating your own house, were you intending to pay back the energy-cost savings to the state if they pick up the whole tab? Naturally you'll accept a tax on the difference between current and future energy bills after the system pays for itself  - since, after all, you're all about cost equity, right?

Finally, the real problem here is the fundamentally childish viewpoint that motivates the whole post. What made you think you could live in any civilized community and simply "do what you want" with your property simply because "you paid for it with money"? The whole <em>point</em> to civilization is that we have rules that mediate the way people act, insofar as it affects the rest of the community. No, you <em>can't</em> "belch smoke" into the air and use twice as much energy as everyone else doing the same things, because the smoke pollutes the air other people breathe, and the energy you waste uses up resources that can't be replaced, and which also cause pollution. (In economic terms, you're generating negative externalities. In simpler terms, you're screwing up the place other people have to live.) When nobody knew how much damage that caused, and energy was plentiful, being fat, dumb and happy seemed like a workable strategy. Now that it's obvious what a cost energy waste and pollution impose, it's reasonable to ask people to limit the damage they do to everyone else's environment.

You want to waste energy? Fine. Just do so in a way that doesn't ruin the environment or harm the health or lifestyle of the people around you. Oh - there's no way to be an oblivious self-centered pig that doesn't harm other people? Then knock it off.

If you want civilization, then be civilized. You have obligations to the rest of the community. Being selfish, wasteful, polluting, and indifferent isn't workable anymore. You have an obligation not to do it, just like there are obligations to get your car smog-checked, and to use carbon-recovery devices on industrial smokestacks. Home energy is another big chunk of the puzzle - it's one we have to address. The fact that it inconveniences you to live as if your neighbors and the environment actually matter is an observation about you, not about the regulations needed to preserve what little resources we have left.

Whackie wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 12:31 PM

I know Mr. Kevin T. Keith personally, and I can tell you he would feel differently if he was not a lifelong welfare recipient and did not live in government subsidized public housing.

Sam Adams wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 12:32 PM

Kevin T. Keith is a watermelon man: Green on the outside and Red on the inside. (Commie ***.)

I've been recycling, turning off lights to the point of ridcule, composting and leaving my vehicle parked one day a week...since  the 70's.  So take your pompus @ss to Russia.  Stay away from me and my family.

tom wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 12:44 PM

Keith, for someone not to be bothered, you sure had a lot to say.

What really stood out was your willingness to give up rights and freedom for civilization.

Property ownership is a fundamental right empowered and recognized by the Founders. And any infringements of those recognized rights are nothing more than the pursuit of tyranny on the part of DC.

You may be willing to give up all for the Better Good, as you see it anyway, and I invite you to be the first to give up all you have to DC, set the example there. Your money, possessions, whatever, feel free to set the example to me that you are serious, give up all you have right now to put yourself on that Level Playing Field and start Boosting up those behind you; But I am and many Americans have no interest of having any more government waste and regulation into our lives.

Enough is enough already.

All you self proclaimed intellectuals, please, rich guys, feel free to set the example, it is called Leadership, not a Dictatorship. If you want people to follow, you have to be doing yourself what you are saying.  

       This reminds me of a story about Benjamin Franklin, where instead of using his Power and influence, (which he could have done,) to light up the Philadelphian streets at night, he simple placed a beautiful street lamp in front of his own home, people saw it, loved it, and then began to install their own. Before long the streets were lit and people walked at night enjoying the evening.

Leadership is not just about passing laws and running peoples live via Legislation; it is about setting an example and living through morals and norms.

Something that is lost on the politicians of today.

Jimmie Bise wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 12:54 PM

Actually, I was more struck by the fact that Keith T. Keith was factually wrong.

For example, his very first objection is wrong by the actual language of the bill.

Second, his contention that the energy standards only apply to new buildings is wrong and my post explained exactly why he's wrong.

Third, well, why bother to detail his manifold errors? Given his servile nature, it's not as if he'd benefit from the education anyhow. Perhaps he should start with Mark Steyn's quote and work backwards toward enlightenment.

Flyoverman wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 12:54 PM

"You want to waste energy? Fine. Just do so in a way that doesn't ruin the environment or harm the health or lifestyle of the people around you. Oh - there's no way to be an oblivious self-centered pig that doesn't harm other people?"

Keith T. Keith is the poster child for the Progressive Left; a saver of the planet.  

Define "waste energy."  Any totalitarian can define that to mean most anything.  I hate to break this to you partner, but if I expend a little more energy to keep mercury filled CFL bulbs away from children yuo can just deal with it.  My car only gets 30 mpg, but my car is not three times more environmentally damaging as a Prius is compares to a Hummer.

I find it interesting that he has no tolerance for anyone who will not conform to YOUR view of things considers them to be self-centered.   He is correct that no one has a right to poison, but his definition of poison is an insult to an rational thought.  In his world it's acceptable to have lead and mercury around children to prevent the discharge of carbon dioxide, a trace gas that  plants ingest and convert to oxygen.

The local government ONLY has the right to inspect my home for safety, nothing more.  The Constituion protects me from the Federal Government entering my home for any reason other than a federal crime.  How I live inside my house is my business.  If you want efficiencies then do so through incentives.  I will never submit to people like him who judge based on personal values, name call, and whose idea of an incentive is "The floggings will continue until morale improves."

mike m wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 1:11 PM

Well Kevin Keith, "and the energy you waste uses up resources that can't be replaced, and which also cause pollution. (In economic terms, you're generating negative externalities...."

1. Demonstrate just once in US history where energy resources have been "used up" and made unavailable to YOU? (I can list several doomday reports going back to the 70's all claiming the very same thing was about to happen ).    In fact the ONLY thing that has prevented energy resources from being plentiful and inexpensive is LIBERALISM.  Go ahead, just try to prove me wrong.

2.  If I PAID for my energy then I am free to WASTE IT any way that I choose!  Capitalism takes care of the rest; IF the resource truly becomes scarce then the price will increase on its own and I will be forced to cut back on my wasteful ways. NOTHING gives you or the government any right to restrict me otherwise and if you think so then revisit the 2nd amendment.  Your concern doesn't bear close inspection anyway because people like you think it is okay for the government to force us to buy FOOD and waste it to power our cars.   Biofuel mandates are already starving the 3rd world (per Oxfam).  As opposed to your imagined 'negative externalites' THAT IS A REAL ONE to people who face starvation  for your mentally defective agenda that increases the price of carbon based food in order to avoid burning the carbon in the ground. (I know you'll say - LET THEM EAT COAL!)

3.  Since the time the whole theory was floated back in the early 80's, there remains ZERO empirical evidence that ALL CO2 in the atmosphere has any MEASURABLE impact on earth's climate - let alone the puny 4% or less that we add to it.  Almost 30 years later with the last ten of global COOLING and you're still kowtowing to the same broken Al Gore LIE that human CO2 is ruining the planet.  Polar bears are still fine. Bangladesh is GAINING shore front area. Coral bleaches in some places and flourishes in others but generally likes warm water. Maldives are NOT going under water. The Sahara  desert DECREASED in size during the warming period.  World disease and hunger DECREASED, (as expected), during the warming, (just as they did during the Medieval Warming period).

Oh BTW Kevin, don't look now but the recent cooling is now affecting the Canadian canola oil crop. You see  CO2  and warming are actually BOTH GOOD for the planet and the GREEN things that live on it.  So even your tag word 'green' makes absolutely no sense either because what you want is COLD and DEAD.  That's really what Al Gore and his Gaia cultists want because they believe humans do not belong here - except those that worship Gaia of course! (then they can fly around in their Gulfstream jets wasting resources..).

rumcrook wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 1:17 PM

kieth t kieth is a fine example of my brand of tyranny over you is perfectly acceptable becuase im doing it for the right reasons.

chuckles wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 1:39 PM

Keith wants us to believe he has read the bill and understands it, but what he fails to take into consideration is Article I, section 8 and 9 of the Constitution and the 10th Amendment along with probably 10 other reasons it's illegal for the Feds to control the states. He has also left out the fact that guns are in almost every household in the US and there has been a shortage of ammo since Jan 20th.  I sugest he get hired by this new agency that will inspect housing and the rest of us can take bets on how long he will last in said job.

For the life of me, I can't understand why these jokers don't just move to Viet Nam or Cuba where they pine to live. America is the only and last place on earth to live and many of us don't want to live in France/Germany/ Russia/ China/ Spain/ ect. I hear there is space in Venuzuela for some fellow travelers.

Catmman wrote Cap& Trade will control your home
on 07-08-2009 1:39 PM

Section 304 effectively turns over control of your home to the State. Under provisions in this section, the government will be able to inspect your property, at their leisure and fine you for your lack of environemtnal compliance. Let me...

Fred wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 1:44 PM

yep that's hope and change, they voted for, eh?

Wildman wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 1:49 PM

Keith, Please hold your breath and save us from the evil co2

Kathy Pittman wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 1:51 PM

We need to get real here!  I will use the state of North Carolina, as that is where I live.

How many people in North Carolina have lost their job???  How many people have lost their home???  The banks now hold the notes and deeds on all of the reposed homes; will they comply when they sell these homes?

Right now people are doing well to get by much less adhering to more government mandates.  After all, who really put these people in the position that they are in?  

I HAVE TO AGREE WITH FLYOVERMAN:

The local government ONLY has the right to inspect my home for safety, nothing more.  The Constitution protects me from the Federal Government entering my home for any reason other than a federal crime.  If you want efficiencies then do so through incentives.  "The floggings will continue until morale improves."

ECN wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 1:52 PM

Isn't it Section 204, not 304?

astounded wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 2:02 PM

Kevin T. Keith appears to be a paid Obama troll.  As for his leftist views, he can do as he wishes, I will do as I wish.  I paid for my energy, period.

"Civilization" in the views of Keith really is for all the rest of Americans to do as he and his ilk dictate.

So, you say you want a revolution, Kevin T. Keith?  Well you and your type may just get your wish.

concretecharlie wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 2:27 PM

Come on...inspect my house...I dare you

concretecharlie wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 2:38 PM

It keeps occurring to me that jack@sses like Kevin Keith claim this self-righteous mantle based upon a singular qualification: they were not part of the Bush Administration.  That's it.  They write this monstrously obtrusive laws, manufacture their "studies" to conveniently support their own positions, craft the press scenario (ever seen how many "fellows" the Ctr for Am Progress claims?), and scorch the earth around any and all critics (fill-in here: stupid, un-scientific, Republican, etc.).  

But all their clap-trap and hype is utterly baseless.  Mocking "Dr." Melissa C..hey, meathead, she is an actual MD!  Real science and real school - not the Kennedy School, you blowhard!

How else to explain putting a kid in his late 20's with ZERO automobile experience..in fact with ZERO business experience in charge of overseeing the GM debacle????  According to this pack of children, and that is what they are and how they think, he is perfectly qualified...

Because he did not hold any kind of position in the Bush Administration.  

I don't see how all of this ends well, frankly.  We defeated Socialism and Communism philosophically.  We have never defeated Fascism (aka Progressivism) - except with tanks in the streets.  Not an advocate - just the facts.

SouthParkConservative wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 2:45 PM

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."

C. S. Lewis

concretecharlie wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 2:56 PM

I didn't even need to look before my previous comments to know that Mr. Keith is just as qualified as everyone of the new ruling junta: (from his site)

"Kevin T. Keith is an aging graduate student who, when he began his advanced education in bioethics, confidently expected to finish his PhD by the turn of the millenium, and still does. He has taught bioethics and done clinical ethics work at two medical schools, and until recently taught ethics and related subjects in the adult night-school program of City College, City University of New York. He hopes some day to become a real boy."

RAGEANDHATE wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 3:57 PM

Kevin T. Keith the day the state tells me how I can live in my home is the day they can take over the payments. WAKE UP AMERICA, they are trying to STEAL your home and privacy.

ArmySoldier wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 4:06 PM

Kevin.T.Keith? Sure sounds like a moniker for a left leaning liberal who would rather allow the government to control their life because they are to inept to control it themselves. They have medications for that Kevin I suggest you get some.

As my moniker will tell you I am a US Military veteran and I would challenge anyone from the US Government, or State for that matter, to try and enter my home to enforce a law that is illegal and immoral. My home is not energy compliant as I am unemployed and disabled and can ill afford the thousands of dollars it would take to meet this laws absurd standards. I certainly hope someone has the foresight to crush this bill at the earliest available opportunity.

John wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 4:21 PM

I'm most afraid of the "Other appropriate means".

Item v) is a killer to - refinancing your house is a very large new lean...

Reality Check wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 4:26 PM

Folks, in all the piling on here, the most important point has been missed.  That being: the original post is wrong.  If you read the bill, you will find that it does not require energy audits or efficiency upgrades.  It just plain old doesn't do that.  What it does is this:

On the retrofits program: All the bill does is establish standards and provide incentives for people to do retrofits.  No one is required to do anything.

On the labeling program: All the bill does is establish establish standards and provide incentives for states to adopt a labeling program.  States and localities are not required to adopt a program at all.  Or, they can adopt a program that doesn't actually require anyone to do efficiency labeling.  Or, they can adopt a program that has a requirements for assessment and labeling.  If they do the latter, they can use incentive money to fund the program.  However, they are expressely prohibited from implementing requirements that assessments/labeling take place at "time of sale."  This last provision is courtesy of the National Association of Realtors.

I'm not going to get into the question of whether people should have a right to know what they're getting when they buy a house.  I'll leave it to you to decide whether the Realtors have home buyers' best interests at heart, or whether they're more interested in making sure buyers don't slow them down on their way to a commission by negotiating a fairer price for a home.

I will say this, though: People ought to get their facts straight.  And the fact is, the bill doesn't do any of the things people are claiming here.

Whackie wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 4:30 PM

<crickets>

Kevin T. Keith apparently sprinkled fairy dust on his head and went poof right after making that post.

A "Bioethics" grad student, huh? Wanna bet his specialty is abortion issues?

4 better or worse wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 4:33 PM

You can just bet that Waxelman and any other Senator or Congressman who's home has to be brought up to the 304  snuff will not being paying for the so called retro fitting.   The will squeeze the work out of one of their cronies they send work to.  This bill is just another one of Obama's pipe dreams that is going to place this country 6 feet under.  The speak out of both side of the mouth democrats will eventually end up screwing up this country so bad it will never get back to normal.  We have made a huge mistake putting Obama in the white house with his full fledge liberal thinking, while Michelle Obama zips around the country in Airforce One shopping with her kids! This is insane!  Can't wait until the entire County gets fed up!

Bob wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 7:17 PM

Kevin T Keith should open a Kool-Aid stand.

DeniseO wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 7:17 PM

Kevin T. Keith turned into RealityCheck.

Jimmie Bise wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 7:20 PM

Reality Check,

  I invite you to go back and read my post a little bit more carefully where you'll discover that I addressed your point. Indeed, the bill does not directly penalize homeowners. It simply withdraws billions of dollars from states if homeowners are not in compliance in sufficient numbers. In other words, it puts unbelievable pressure on states to force compliance.

George wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 7:21 PM

In my county, a building permit is required to replace a water heater.  The state is going to have a field day inspecting for energy compliance every time someone wants a water heater installed.

jrc wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 7:38 PM

"UNreality Check" is quite obviously another Obama paid troll. These nonsense lines are straight out of the socialist-democrat party talking points. Further, Mr. Unreality provides us with no rationale, no logic, nothing but his own broad-brush statements - themselves ludicrous. One wonders if he is just aging whacko Keith back at it again.

The entire 'Green Science' idea is one monstrous joke. A physicist, I am able to back up my claims that 1) Only the least talented become 'weather scientists'; 2) Most physicists, released from the quackery environment of university department mind-control, will tell you plainly that 'global warming' is a politically inspired hoax; 3) 'Weather Science' aka 'Green Science' usually cannot predict the weather TOMORROW with any degree of accuracy or reliability; 4) 'Weather Science' does not accurately describe the physical phenomena because the interactions are chaotic - a mathematical discipline that leaves the most talented physicists and mathematicians baffled, when they attempt to apply it to large-scale models; 5) Large computer 'models' of weather, like many other physical processes, are almost invariably assumption-driven, and therefore unable to prove anything except what they are told ahead of time - my experience in industry and elsewhere proves this in detail.

'Green Science', on the other hand, is loaded with unscientific blarble, unbelievably clumsy and inaccurate measurements and techniques, absurdly unrealistic assumptions, and results that are clearly off the map of reality.

In other words, it is a political hoax, which most proponents overseas willingly acknowledge - claiming that it is needed to usher in 'global' government.

So Keith, and Unreal person, climb back under your rocks, and come out when you understand logic, reading, and arithmetic. Maybe then you can presume to discuss basic 'science', like cause and effect.

What a pair of dullards.

America IS Conservative wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 8:55 PM

What's scary to me is how quickly this thing got pushed through the House.  We have been thrown so many bad ideas by this president - one after the other - so much that it seems like a magic act so that bills like this can get through without a true national debate.  

E. Burke wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 9:16 PM

In the late 1990s, Rush Limbaugh warned us that leftist extremists had fled to, and infiltrated, the environmental movement. They, and he, knew then that the way to implement their malignant philosophy was via "green."

Their wildest dreams and goals are being realized a mere 10-12 years later.

Political inSecurity wrote If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304. - AIP Blog - American Issues Project
on 07-08-2009 9:21 PM

Obama is now demanding that Federal inspectors have the right to enter our homes for any reason they can make up. If you doubt this, just read this section of the cap and rob bill. Notice the highlighted portion. This...

Sara wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 10:54 PM

Well, after the stock market and real estate market crash, I am just rolling in the dough it would take to please our new fascist masters.  They can not take blood from a turnip.  The banksters already got it all.

If they tag my energy inefficient house, they will finally offer the way for me to honorably get out from under the reality that I am 100k in the hole. So bother me you little fascists and I will gladly divest from the property taxes and loss and give the foreclosed property to the banksters.   The "Progressives", aka fascists, are mistaking property owners as folks who give a hoot at this point.  

Finally do these kooks even consider retired people who are living on "investments" and/or social security who planned paying off their homes so they could afford to live there in their old age?  Where are they going to come up with thousands for house improvments required to please these wackos?  Maybe that problem is solved with Obama's triage single payer health care plan where people over 65 are denied health care.

Paul wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 11:50 PM

The impact of the bill as written is a incredible disaster. It makes owning property a liability. This bill has instantly devalued all real estate, because it demands an owner spend considerable monies  to sell or lease without any  realistic return on his investment. The real estate business is toast. There will be few sales. Many bankruptcies. Furthermore,  Banks, because of the mark to market accounting rules, may be forced to write down a whole lot of performing loans  to bring them in line with falling  market values.

I am a California Architect who deals with California's Title 24 Energy Codes. Generally speaking, the three areas where energy efficiencies are gained are in utilizing  new dual glazed, low E windows, replacing existing heating,venting and air conditioning systems with more efficient ones and increasing the insulation in the structures floors, walls and roofs.  None of these measures are cheap.  New windows for the  typical 2,000 sf house could easily run 50K.  New HVAC 10 -15K. The third way  is increased insulation. The walls of most older homes use 2x4 studs on the outside walls. But energy standards require at least 2 x 6 studs to accommodate R-19 insulation. Similar problems occur with roof  and ceiling joists  for heavier roof insulation. These problems need buckets of money to solve.  Where's the money  supposed to come from?

Additionally  in California, we have already pretty much maxed out existing technologies for energy. efficiency.  There are no technologies out there to reach that magic 30% improvement, or worse the 50% improvement. The only solutions may be in solar or wind energy production. Solar may work in California, but in many areas of the country forget about it.  No economically viable urban wind turbine has been built to date, because urban winds are not  laminar flow and/ or not high enough in  velocity.

It would appear the real goal of the Democrats is to bankrupt the country, and impoverish everyone in it, except of course for the  favored elites of the Dems.

Heidi Ho wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-08-2009 11:54 PM

"The local government ONLY has the right to inspect my home for safety, nothing more."

Oh really.  

Governments don't have "rights" and for whose safety?

Get a grip, people.

If you believe that, you've already conceded all the statists need to back you into a corner.

Good. Grief.

Ed Jolin wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-09-2009 12:53 AM

Well, well, well ! Kevin T. is quite a piece of work.

  The one inescapable fact he misses is that there is no man-made climate change. I have long contended that we do not have enough data on earth cycles to make the claim that we are causing global warming and the temperature history since that claim has in itself disproven the theory of global warming. It is a scam and Mr. Al Gore should be brought to justice in the same manor as Maddoff and sentenced to the maximum time in prison.

  How many of you know that Hemp was illegalized through oil company lobbyists and that is was not addressed by it's formal name to avoid opposition from medical lobbyists.  Hemp is readily replenished anywhere (unlike some crops,) produced cleaner fuels from seed oil and (correct me if I'm wrong with time frame) Ford Motor Company produced a plastic in the 60s that was lighter and 10 times stronger than steel. Ford still holds that patent.

Want the answer to alternate fuels? Legalize Hemp! There was no sound basis for illegalizing it. It is no more physically damaging or impairing than cigarettes or alcohol, in fact less damaging and impairing.

 I have one question for Keith T.  Have you asked President Obama or Al Gore how energy efficient their lavish homes are?

Noah wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-09-2009 2:02 AM

All these requirements of the homeowner and state make the sickest sense if you take them in the true context of the bill. This new law is not in truth designed to curb energy use or reduce pollution. Those are merely the pretexts. This bill is designed for one purpose only: to ensure a massive income stream for those involved in the trading of carbon credits. The more pieces of the puzzle you put together (and I urge everyone to urge friends and family to do so) by reading blogs, the more you will see this is a financial scam on a monumental scale. Left and right can come together on this quickly and easily by simply looking at facts and seeking the truth. Folks, this is not conspiracy theory. This is conspiracy. It doesn't get any worse than this, so let's not let this pass the Senate. The American Blogolution is at hand.

Maggie wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-09-2009 4:51 AM

Keith needs to read up on John Locke (not to mention many other great writers of his time and others); his view on civiliazation might be altered. Although, he never uses the word civilization directly, society in the case will substitute. Locke -along with the forefathers- intended to set up a government in which the members of society (civiliztion) were joined in a social contract in whcih members can expect the preservation of thier three natural rights, life liberty and property. NOTHING MORE. the government should preserve our rights, not limit them. By passing this bill we are fully relinquishing the third along with portions of the former two rights. I will for nothing hand over my life to any being just because he sits in one of Washington's thrones. We need to take a stand and be active. we are on the dawn of a harrowing era if something is not done, and soon. Big business has been taken, the media is going down as well. what's left? the people. and when they come, let us refuse to sell our souls, for when the government has had its fill, they are just about all we will have left.

Plumb Bob wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-09-2009 7:16 AM

If I may --

I just read the text of HR 2454 in the area you quoted. It's talking about a LABELING program. So far as I can tell, what they're talking about is a government inspector slapping an ENERGY STAR-LIKE LABEL on your home, not the inspector actually attempting to force you to perform retrofits.

Now, while I'm generally against the government piling inspections and information requirements on merchants and businessmen, I don't see this particular measure as the onerous, burdensome thing you seem to think it is. If they could force you to retrofit your house because it failed an inspection, sure. But just labeling it? I think it's yet another nuisance from Nanny Government, but sorry, I can't get worked up about it.

Please feel free to correct my reading if I've misread something.

Bill F wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-09-2009 7:50 AM

I've Heard that the Obamaites are going to repeal the laws of Physics since that is the very thing standing between them and their goals. This of course makes as much sense as most of the drivial keith t and his communist friends are spouting

SouthParkConservative wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-09-2009 9:30 AM

The problem, Plum Bob, is that the government has tied federal funding to the states with this labelling program;  if the quotas aren't met, the state will lose millions.  The Feds come off scott free in this scenario, because it forces the states to be the bad guys and enforce the federal regulations.

Sneaky bastards.

theadmiral wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-09-2009 10:27 AM

Paul the architect from CA is exactly right. I'm an architect in VA and I'm a LEEDap. To reach the insane efficiency goals, it will require a total overall of not only the skin and HVAC of the house but what's inside. And it will be a lot more than just appliances. Minimum SEER ratings on HVAC equipment is currently 13. To meet 30 or 50% efficiency goals you're going to have to install 15 or 16 SEER equipment meaning pretty much every house in this country will have to have HVAC equipment replaced prior to selling.

Every.Single.House.

This bill if passed would destroy this country. It is sheer madness.

ROCnPhilly wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-09-2009 10:29 AM

So, in the end my state will be coerced by federal unfunded mandates to force me to buy all GE appliances?  Never thought the U.S. would embrace fascism.  This is nuts.

VibrioCocci wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-09-2009 10:54 AM

Plumb Bob wrote: "It's talking about a LABELING program. So far as I can tell, what they're talking about is a government inspector slapping an ENERGY STAR-LIKE LABEL on your home, not the inspector actually attempting to force you to perform retrofits."

Follow the logic, Bob.

Are you trying to say that the government is going to walk around neighborhoods slapping ENERGY STAR-LIKE LABELS on peoples' homes for no reason?

Of course not.

So why would a government put an ENERGY STAR-LIKE LABEL on an individual's home?

If he performs the retrofits, right?

If the retrofits were optional there would be no incentive to perform them.  

However, if the government withdraws billions of dollars from states if homeowners are not in compliance in sufficient numbers there is suddenly unbelievable pressure on states to force compliance.

Noah wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-09-2009 12:16 PM

Guys, you don't understand. Nobody will need to buy these appliances or insulation or retrofits. That's the scam! We're all supposed to do it, but since it will be difficult if not impossible, and the states will need to get their federal dollars, we'll be buying carbon-offsets. It is as diabolical and insidious as any fraud ever attempted. This will make Bernie Madoff look like a six-year-old trying to hide a coin behind his ear.

The point of a carbon-offset or carbon-permit is that it allows you to go over your allotted emission level, or "cap". If you stay under the level, then you don't need any offsets. If you go over the level, over the cap, your emissions must be "offset" with carbon-permits. That's why all these ludicrous rules for homes in this bill: the guys trading the offsets need you to go over your allowance. That's how they get rich. Or should I say richer. Everything in this bill is there for no other reason than to simply create a huge market for the world's newest and most valuable commodity: the carbon-offset.

If we want this scam to get beat in the Senate, people need to focus on one thing only: follow the money. Forget about climate, forget about socialism and regulation, just look at the "trade" aspect of cap and trade. A trillion-dollar market is being created for the benefit of a very few: the traders of carbon-offsets on Wall Street who pushed this bill. Note the opposition to this bill from true environmentalists. They know there will be little if any carbon reduction because the purchase of carbon-offsets is simply a license to pollute. The climate-saving pretext is a red herring. Liberals can see this and be more outraged than conservatives; nobody is saving the planet, the oligarchy is just cashing in.

Once you understand the game, you see how truly insidious it is: those selling the big scare and its "solution" (not!) are the very ones who will manipulate the capping and trading to profit from it, at our expense.  Congress is complicit in the fraud. Only when Americans realize the next Enron is at hand will they wake up. Time to start shouting.

Artfldgr wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-09-2009 12:56 PM

cant wait till they start counterfeiting the labels, and the people in the offices start taking bribes to grant conditions and run...

whooboy...   its like the old country..

but back them grandma woudl say :"when will it be like it was?"

Jim wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-09-2009 1:12 PM

If the rquirements of 304 are going to inforced. I would suggest investing in HVAC, Insulation Mfg's. There,s

nothing like goverment mandates to drive up price's.

David Claiborne wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-09-2009 1:43 PM

A lot of you seem to have no idea what fascism actually is...

www.ellensplace.net/fascism.html

K T wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-09-2009 2:46 PM

Many of you simply offer the soundbites from talkradio or quotes from alarmist websites versus true thoughts of your own that are devoid of name calling and fear-mongering and true solutions.  I am so very sick of this polarizing, hate-speak that hides behind false claims of "patriotism" and "Christianity".  Such self-righteousness and narrow-mindedness will be our ultimate downfall, NOT (as you may think and proclaim)  the people trying their best to solve our nations' problems (and perhaps doing some things correctly and also making some mistakes in the process as human beings WILL do).  

Dennis wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-09-2009 3:00 PM

Well KT's selflessness and broad-mindedness has sure helped us out of this one!

Larry wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-09-2009 3:26 PM

If Keith wants this bill passed, I have another amendment for him to both save the planet, polar bears and whatever is on MSNBC today.  First, every human on the planet exhales 166,440 litres of  carbon dioxide every year.  Take 150 million Democrats, have them stop breathing for six months, and problem is solved.

See the NY times for the citation about the CO from humans www.nytimes.com/.../q-a-burden-of-breathing.html.

Gee, could global warming result from exploding population in the world?

Follieskater wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-09-2009 3:38 PM

Who IS this Kevin Keith???? I agree with Sam Adams.......ship his happy @ss to Russia.....and all the rest of the socialist left wingers!!!!! I lived and worked in the former East Bloc back in the early 80's and we are headed in the same direction....never thought it would happen!

Adam Smith wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-09-2009 6:16 PM

I am not sure what is more scary:

The Waxmen (with my nostrils) power grab or idiots like Kevin Keith?

WTF?

America is done.  Bill Clinton was Caligula and The Obamamessiah is Nero.

Watch and see.  Bush only helped to accelerate this slide and by the time Obama finishes his third, or fourth...term, we will be done as a first world country.  Our last election looked more like something in Zimbabwe with the Black Panthers, ACORN & the unions serving as Obama's Brown Shirts (or Mugabe's militiary "veterans").

The supposed "opposition" party has done nothing but grease the tracks for this situation for the last twenty years.

Pathetic all the way around.  I'm sure idiots like Kevin The Troll think this Brave New World his ilk are creating will be a much better place.

You all just need to take your Soma and shut up.

BarbaraLibertarian wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-10-2009 7:27 AM

So how do we fight this? Simply by writing our representatives? I have done so many times threatening to mount campaigns to "take them down" in the next election and begging them not to send me a canned response. What do I get each time? A canned, blah, blah, blah, response. So how many of you, besides Kevin, voted for Obamessiah, who loves to play the blame game? Just wait until he's on the opposite side of it -- and he will be if he continues down this arrogant, Socialist path of his. He's got this Utopian vision of a nuclear-free, "green" world and he's going to use all the resources at his disposal (e.g. OUR tax dollars) to do achieve that vision, no matter who he has to trample over -- namely Joe and Joan Q. Public. As for this "Cap and Tax" nonsense: so at a time when we have record foreclosures and unemployment and as we homeowners have watched the value of our houses plummet, The Great Obamessiah wants to make it EVEN harder to sell a home -- not to mention invade our privacy. I guess this means no more open burning wood fireplaces, hardy New Englanders. Sigh. I just love the fake beauty of a gas fireplace, don't you?

If we don't stand up and take a stand NOW, these weenie legislators (Dudd's the worst) will have their way. Just remember, you get what you vote for (for the record, I did not vote for Obamanation)! How's W looking to y'all now? I'd love to have him and the First LADY (emphasis on Lady) over to dinner for a chat.

Financial Engineer wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-10-2009 10:09 AM

Re-read Noah's post. He was spot on. This bill is not about reducing carbon, it is about creating a $1T market for carbon credits and certificates that can be bought, sold or re-packaged to make even the most environmentally offensive enterprise seem green. FOLLOW THE DOLLAR FOLKS. THIS BILL IS A DISASTER FOR OUR COUNTRY AND IT MUST BE STOPPED,

J Payne wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-10-2009 11:58 AM

I fear that Barbara  has posted one of the most fearful facts on this or any political thread.  There is simply no way to fight the current clique in Washington.  Senators and Representatives can be voted out, but the parties simply hand you a slimier individual to replace them with.  Sure, you can vote for an independent, but you know that your vote will be a complete waste of effort.  All we can do is send greedy, immoral criminals to argue with the current greedy, immoral criminals.  Can I get a democrat that is in touch with the people?  Can I get a republican with morals?  No.  These items are not on the menu.  

StephenSmith wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-10-2009 12:47 PM

If this thing passes I am going to go into the energy-efficiency auditing business. Heck, maybe I'll start a chain of them...

Noah wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-11-2009 12:41 AM

As Barbara and J Payne point out, there is no access for citizens to their elected representatives. Such access is restricted to big-wig lobbyists. We get a form letter. They get custom-made legislation.

I've come to realize that polarization is exactly what both parties want. Candidates promote themselves on all the hot-button issues and as soon as they're in office they sell themselves to the highest bidder.

The only solution is to get money out of campaigns and out of lobbying efforts. To do that takes legislation that the two parties would oppose. The only way to change that is to elect independents. The only way for that to happen is for independents to have money. The solution for this catch-22 better come soon. I don't see a better chance than this legislation, which is so clearly opposed to the interests of any citizens other than investment bankers. The left and the right can actually come together on this if they can take off the blinders for a minute. But the average Joe doesn't know what's going on here - of dozens I've talked to in recent days only one had a vague idea that this was a tax under another name. The bailout, then GM, now this - if ever there was a time and opportunity for grassroots work, this is it!

Chuckles wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-11-2009 7:46 AM

I don't think this has yet been mentioned:  For many Americans their basic retirement savings are in their home.  When they want to retire and move to something smaller, or perhaps have to go to assisted care or a nursing home, they will need to cash out of their home.

The requirements of this bill will make it harder to sell their home, therefore driving down the price and providing less retirement money.

If this is your situation, don't worry.  (I sound like a liberal saying that.)  The federal government will step in and give you what you need.  They have people who are a lot smarter than you who can make better decisions for you than you can for yourself.  The cruise lines may not get as much business from seniors as in the past but can make up for it by marketing to government employees who will have your money to spend on themselves like Obama did on his million dollar New York City date night with Michelle.  (Isn't the White House enough for them?)

You will be saved by socialized medicine, euphemistically called by its more salable name universal health care.  Here's how:   Under present provisions of this plan your life span will be determined by the government, which will decide at what point your medical maintenance becomes more than taxpayers should bear, and therefore when you should die.

I look on this as a good thing.  It means that when my health starts to fail I will not have to live for long in this socialistic hell that voters allowed by not understanding the man, and his agenda, they were voting for.

Chuckles

GraniteGrok wrote After the Show - 7/11/09
on 07-11-2009 9:51 PM

A couple of links on the subjects we talked about on the show:Cap and Tax:Your Green House, Cont'dJimmie Bise at the American Issues Project has a great follow-up on the cap-and-trade bill's onerous home-retrofit mandates, which Kevin Williamson and I

Pphwevpc wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-14-2009 3:23 PM

pCJL1K

James wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-16-2009 2:02 AM

You're worried about pollution, and a green world, and how "I" need to be energy efficeint, I need to conserve because "I" am screwing up the world that other people live in with "MY" reckless use of electricity.  

HEY YOU HOLIER THAN THOU LIBERAL, why is China, India, Russian, Cuba, South America, Africa, the Middle East, any other developing nation without ANY, AND I MEAN ANY regulation what-so-EVER, NOT BEING HELD TO THE SAME STANDARD.  AREN'T THEY SCREWING UP THE PLANET MORE THAN MY 60W LIGHT BULB EVERY COULD?!?!?!?!?!?!    

But  it's not about that, for every communist, marxist, facist, socialist, the ONLY way to make this world a GREENER PLACE, IS TO RID THE WORLD OF AMERICA,  Only when personal freedom is DEAD, will the world be a better place.

GOD SAVE THE REPUBLIC, THE SOCIALISTS ARE ON THE MOVE

Joe Sixpack wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-16-2009 3:17 PM

The author misreads the bill and is asserting outcomes that just aren't in the bill. I encourage you to read it for yourself. No where does it require a homeowner to make improvements. The energy code requirement really is just for new construction.

jetsongreen.typepad.com/.../hr2454_ans.pdf

Joanne Antonetti wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-17-2009 2:35 AM

So let's all go out and buy our mercury-laced lightbulbs because they will save us 10 cents a year on our energy bill and it makes all the bobble-headed Americans think they are actually doing something good for a good cause (I can hardly stand it).

This whole energy/carbon hoopla will only be (another contribution to) our undoing in the long run (and that's the plan folks).  It is not much different than the vaccine schedule turning this country into the sickest modernized country in the world.  We mandated vaccines (for our own good of course), to supposedly eradicate infectious diseases (biggest lie in history), but it turned us into a population riddled with degenerative, chronic, auto-immune and neurological disorders/diseases/syndromes that we will never recover from.  This country likes to outwardly measure it's overall health on the absence of infectious diseases to benefit the Pharma Mafia monsters, so too, this carbon crap will benefit the powerful elite.

Don't forget to get all your mercury-laced flu shots to go nicely with your mercury lightbulbs.

David wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-17-2009 8:40 AM

Consumers should have read the entire bill and have some knowledge about business. Requirements put on fossil fuels costs companies and those costs are passed on to the consumers. It is called the cost of doing business. We need to be looking at new energy sources and they are abundant. The Cap and Trade Bill does hamper companies that product fossil fuel energy and puts them on an unfair plain with the rest of the world. Two and one half billion people live in China and India. Those countries have decided that expanding their business is more important that saving the planet. We cannot save the world alone, but we can require our companies to be more efficient and productive without increasing pollutants. This bill does not stop with businesses. Home owners are required to meet energy efficient standards. The government will help consumer with 50% of the cost of updating their homes; however the remaining 50% of the cost comes directly out of the consumers’ pockets.

In summary, the cost of energy goes up, which is paid for by the consumers. Businesses include their taxes when computing the cost of making or selling their products. The costs to retrofitting your home are paid for by the consumers. The government’s 50% comes from the taxes levied on consumers and businesses.  Every dime or trillion dollars the government spends on anything it provides comes directly or indirectly from the consumers.

The Cap and Trade Bill is inefficiency at its best.    

kostenlos filme downloaden wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-19-2009 10:04 AM

Great idea, but will this work over the long run?

Ed wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-23-2009 3:24 PM

Kevin T. Keith  - you're the hypocrite that says "what I do in my home, with my partner(s) is my business" - yet you invite the federal government to come in and micromanage how you heat and cool your home?

Come on in, Federal Government!! Just... don't look in the bedroom. Oh. You have to? Well, just don't look under the bed. Oh. You have to? Oh well, that's ok, because I'm a good drone, I'm a happy, responsible drone. In fact, why don't you just call me THX1137.

Where does it stop? Clearly - In Kevin T. Keith's world, he's ok if the federal government *never* stops.

Freedom1 wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-23-2009 6:29 PM

Curious, does anyone know what the distribution of energy consumption is by component (cars, homes, buildings, airplanes, buses, trains, 18-wheelers, ships?  Is targeting homes the right place to focus our attention - is it the biggest bang for the buck? What % impact will it have on the overall grid and carbon footprint?

I'm a republican. I agree with some of our Democrat brethren on the philosophy of a clean earth - perhaps not on how we get there, but, I do agree we as humans need to be respectful of others, ourselves, and our planet - not a tree hugger, rather believe what Mom said - If you make a mess, boy - you better clean it up! It's just the right thing to do.  It's really kind of sad that we now find ourselves facing a government that wants to be our Mom - right?  Why is that?

I see far too much regulation not only at the Federal, but the State, and Municipality - and now even in the "private" regulatory organizations called "Home Owners Associations".  Honestly, folks, if you combine all of the big to little laws we have in place - it will drive you closer to that bottle of whiskey!

So, How much energy do private residences consume from the overall picture? Does this Bill address other areas - perhaps - focus on the real energy killers, or does it primarily focus on our private residence?  I've not read it yet - I will.  

Incentives I agree with - mandates (for the most part) i don't.  

Myself, I have recently replaced my A/C and Heat Units with more efficient 15 SEER units.  Why - the electricity bills were killing me.  In Texas, it gets hotter than Hades in the Summer - and it was simply outrageous on my wallet.  So - my incentive was to take out a home equity loan - pay 15K for my renovation.  Oh, I also dropped a water well so that I could water my 3/4 acres and not go into debt with the Water company.  It will take about 3-5 years to break even but I feel I made a dent toward lowering overall energy consumption which helps my wallet, and the carbon footprint.

I happen to have been involved with Data Center energy consumption analysis at my last job at IBM.  I found a really well written report, funded by congress, which examined the impact of Data Centers on the energy grids.  Had a lot of great information, and while I think they said that US Data Centers impact to the energy picture was less than 2% of overall energy - I think the emphasis was on their role as part of the critical business machine that keeps our economy moving, and over cost containment for future growth of highly dense computing which was anticipated to place bigger demand on Cooling - thus, more energy.  Furthermore, I recall that there a key concern was that the Power Grids across the US, and especially the East Coast were quickly moving to end of life and becoming flaky - remember Buffalo NY - the huge blackout which, for a brief moment in history excited a lot of Astronomers because they could actually "see" the stars....  

With the demand on a critical Infrastructure such as the power grids, and their need to be refurbished as well as adding more energy sources which really means more money, political bickering over what type of generator, where to put it and what not - the potential for future rolling blackouts in the NE is almost assured since we all know that lawmakers can't really agree on anything important really fast. At any rate - It was an eye opener that, if true, that our Country needs to solve. Sort of a National Security concern I think.  So - how do we do that, and still remain a free country?  Does everyone get together and start a grass roots movement and have "Energy Parties" to promote energy savings ideas in a "free" open forum - will that be enough to get some off their butts to take personal responsibility to make the changes needed in their life and habits to make a difference, or, do we need Big brother to make it a law, and force us to "change".  

If it were me - I'd prefer the Grass Roots movement - not the Big Bro.  I've already started.

I agree with some of the points I read from the democrat above - we are a civilized society, and needs rules in which to operate (paraphrased).  For example - If we did not have traffic lights at road intersections we'd have far less vehicles and people on the road - and more graves full....hmmm that could solve our energy problem....(humor)  So, that's an example of a good law.  So - maybe some regulation is good, but, like my conservative brethren - too much is maybe not good.

Overall - I'm against Big Gov't - wish we could have smaller Fed Gov't - let the States make their own decisions - but, don't pollute our neighbors air or water.  I recall back years ago when I was a teen, I was pissed that the Auto and Steel Mfg's felt the freedom to dump toxic waste into the river system which eventually found its way into the underground water, the oceans, the farms and fish and other things.  It took the Gov't putting some regulation in place to keep the Mfg criminals from doing what they wanted. It also caused them to look elsewhere to build their factories so they could keep their profits up and not have to spend the money to do the cleanup all the while polluting our neighboring country and moving work offshore in Asia Pacific.  Cause and Effect.  I contend, if they'd have built the "Clean up after yourself" process into their business model up front, then they would probably still employ US Citizens in US factories.  Some say that the Gov't regulation was too agressive, forcing them out of the country in order to maintain profit - not sure - I see both sides, but I am glad that the factories aren't polluting as much in America - Sad that we've only moved the problem.

This is really a complex problem that we as Americans "need" to solve - we need "some" type of motivator - can we do it with Grass Roots movements - or will it take Big Bro to push us to do it - not sure.

Usenext Free Trial wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 07-29-2009 4:21 PM

I cannot believe this will work!

Pharmg500 wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 08-03-2009 6:43 AM

Very nice site!

Kokta wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 08-04-2009 3:13 AM

[url=ygydpo.sitegoz.com/smoke_gets_in_your_eyes_free_sheet_music.html]smoke gets in your eyes free sheet music[/url]

We did not choose to be the guardians of the gate, but there is no one else.

wadon998811

Mcbott wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 08-05-2009 6:52 AM

[url=groups.yahoo.com/.../What_is_in_cigarettes]What is in cigarettes[/url]

Everything has a natural explanation.

coolserg9981

Laface wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 08-05-2009 8:59 AM

[url=www.hi5.com/.../4317460--Bingo+Casino+Play+Games+Free--front-html]Bingo Casino Play Games Free[/url]  An open mind leaves a chance for someone to drop a worthwhile thought in it   coolserg9981

Pharmd255 wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 08-05-2009 1:33 PM

Very nice site! <a href="opeyixa.com/.../1.html">cheap viagra</a>

Pharme501 wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 08-05-2009 1:33 PM

Very nice site!  [url=opeyixa.com/.../2.html]cheap cialis[/url]

Pharmc963 wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 08-05-2009 1:33 PM

Very nice site! cheap cialis opeyixa.com/.../4.html

Pharmb713 wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 08-05-2009 1:33 PM

Very nice site!

mk wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 08-09-2009 8:07 PM

Lets all bash the only opinion to the article! Forget that we have our own opinion! The Lefty Liberals need to go down! Bring back BUSH! Drill baby drill! And MOST of all PRIVATIZE POLICE and FIRE! Those socialist services are keeping our neighborhoods from burning down! We should be able to hire our own fire fighters and police officers. Maybe then our God fearing friends at Blackwater can help!

ZettyInjeft wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 08-11-2009 8:58 PM

What's up! ive been skimming this website for a while; Just wanted to stop lurking.

Pharmk952 wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 08-12-2009 9:10 PM

Very nice site! <a href="oieapxy.com/.../1.html">cheap viagra</a>

Pharmf369 wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 08-12-2009 9:10 PM

Very nice site!  [url=oieapxy.com/.../2.html]cheap cialis[/url]

Pharma549 wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 08-12-2009 9:10 PM

Very nice site! cheap cialis oieapxy.com/.../4.html

Pharme357 wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 08-12-2009 9:10 PM

Very nice site!

Pharmd617 wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 08-20-2009 8:37 AM

Very nice site! <a href="aieopxy.com/.../1.html">cheap viagra</a>

Pharmd1 wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 08-20-2009 8:37 AM

Very nice site!  [url=aieopxy.com/.../2.html]cheap cialis[/url]

Pharmg758 wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 08-20-2009 8:37 AM

Very nice site! cheap cialis aieopxy.com/.../4.html

Pharmk102 wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 08-20-2009 8:37 AM

Very nice site!

Bob Belvedere wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 08-21-2009 6:58 PM
العاب wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 08-25-2009 3:50 AM

Very nice site!

triefefut wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 08-25-2009 9:06 PM

This is a very interesting website, I have added it in my favourites. Keep up the good work.

<a href="http://lesbians.coolinc.info/***-casting-couch.html">*** casting couch</a>

Assentgeogedy wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 08-28-2009 12:17 AM

Good day, sun shines!

There have were times of hardship when I felt unhappy missing knowledge about opportunities of getting high yields on investments.  I was a dump and downright pessimistic person.  

I have never thought that there weren't any need in big initial investment.

Nowadays, I feel good, I begin to get real income.

It gets down to select a correct partner who utilizes your funds in a right way - that is incorporate it in real business, parts and divides the profit with me.

You can ask, if there are such firms?  I have to tell the truth, YES, there are.  Please be informed of one of them:

http://www.theblogmoney.com

Clothing wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 09-06-2009 7:09 PM

Wow! Its imposible... I'm realy shocked :/

Pharma165 wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 09-12-2009 3:30 AM

Very nice site!  [url=oieapxy.com/.../2.html]cheap cialis[/url]

Pharme835 wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 09-12-2009 3:30 AM

Very nice site! cheap cialis oieapxy.com/.../4.html

Pharmd766 wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 09-12-2009 3:30 AM

Very nice site!

Pharmk39 wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 09-12-2009 3:30 AM

Very nice site! <a href="oieapxy.com/.../1.html">cheap viagra</a>

autoauctions wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 09-14-2009 10:35 AM

VRy interesting to read it :P :D

avtoooo wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 09-15-2009 1:36 PM

Опубликовал на своем блоге вашу статью, и напечатол там конечно-же обратную ссылку на вас. Но вот зашел посмотреть поевился ли трекбек, а его нет…

cialis wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 09-16-2009 9:49 AM

Hello!

<a href="oixypea.com/.../a> ,

Layenseextist wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 09-22-2009 2:55 AM

Hello everyone!

I would like to burn a theme  at this forum.  There is such a thing, called HYIP, or High Yield Investment Program.  It reminds of  financial piramyde, but in rare cases  one may happen to meet a company that really pays up to 2% daily not on invested money, but from real profits.

For several years , I make money with the help of these programs.

I'm with no money problems now, but there are heights that must be conquered . I make 2G daily, and my first investment was 500 dollars only.

Right now, I'm very close at catching at last a guaranteed  variant to make a sharp rise .  Visit  my web site to get additional info.

http://www.theblogmoney.com

entengalf wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 09-24-2009 6:32 AM

<a href=www.1up.com/.../my1Up>south">www.1up.com/.../my1Up african hoodia</a> [url=www.1up.com/.../my1Up]mega t with hoodia[/url]

entengalf wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 09-24-2009 11:23 AM

<a href=www.1up.com/.../my1Up>do">www.1up.com/.../my1Up hoodia gordonii diet pills work</a> [url=www.1up.com/.../my1Up]hoodia[/url]

kinozalvip wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 09-27-2009 7:27 AM

Да уж... об этом подробно написано тут http://kinozalvip.ru

TomylenoScell wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 09-28-2009 8:01 PM

Hi!

You may probably be very curious to know how one can manage to receive high yields on investments.  

There is no need to invest much at first.

You may commense  earning  with a money that usually is spent

for  daily food, that's 20-100 dollars.

I have been participating  in one project  for several years,

and I'm ready  to share  my secrets at my blog.

Please visit my pages and send me private message to get the info.

P.S. I earn 1000-2000 per daily now.

http://www.theblogmoney.com

MarlinZU wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 09-29-2009 6:07 PM

Yes, I understand you[url=http://cdzdton.tripod.com ].[/url]

Carol wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 09-30-2009 11:48 AM

Hi , I need to know what section in cap and trade is where they tell you you can't grow a garden and they are going to do away with fruit and veg open markets. Thank you Catol. My Mayor needs this information.

RhilkBiliVoks wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-03-2009 3:21 PM

Hello!

You may probably be very curious to know how one can manage to receive high yields on investments.  

There is no initial capital needed.

You may commense  to get income with a sum  that usually goes

on daily food, that's 20-100 dollars.

I have been participating  in one company's work for several years,

and I'll be glad to share  my secrets at my blog.

Please visit blog and send me private message to get the info.

P.S. I earn 1000-2000 per day now.

http://www.cash-blog.com

ClaytonSR wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-10-2009 3:26 PM

What for mad thought[url=ueewfvq.angelfire.com/map.html ].[/url]

AstectVet wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-11-2009 7:59 AM

That’s Too nice, when it comes in india hope it can make a Rocking place for youngster.. hope that come true.

AstectVet wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-13-2009 10:39 PM

Hi there, I found your blog via Google while searching for first aid for a heart attack and your post looks very interesting for me.

JoJo Jack Jnr wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-14-2009 5:57 PM

Yo Wasup  

I saw ya thread

Very absorbing

In fact I have been researching for this for yonks

www.americanissuesproject.org  is a site i'll keep bookmarked

Great effort congratulations!

John

[url=www.comparemobile.org [/url]

JacksonFive wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-15-2009 4:35 PM

Numerous studies brought to light that acai berries pulp has an extreme full antioxidant capacity

with even more antioxidant effectiveness than cranberry, raspberry, blackberry, strawberry, or blueberry. <a href="answers.yahoo.com/.../index Force Max</a>

AstectVet wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-16-2009 11:24 PM

I think your blog need a new wordpress template. Downalod it from templates.wordpressguru.in, The site has nice and unique wordpress templates.

Stydayhoidway wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-19-2009 8:43 AM

Отлично!!! Вместо книги на ночь.

Amoutoump wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-20-2009 5:33 AM

Интересный материал, спасибо!

Kitoneenoigma wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-20-2009 11:21 PM

Суперский пост! Блог уже в ридере )

DepStoroDes wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-21-2009 1:48 AM

Ага, теперь ясно… А то я не сразу поняла где тут связь с названием…

Wewgagpeest wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-21-2009 4:26 AM

Интересный материал, спасибо!

Shieniabemi wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-21-2009 4:51 PM

Огромное спасибо! Очень помогла ваша информация!!!)))))))))))

seizemeabeDes wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-21-2009 7:09 PM

За такие посты надо награды давать, на полном серьезе!

tramadol wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-22-2009 1:46 PM

Hello!

<a href="forums.autosport.com/index.php tramadol discount</a> ,

phentermine wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-22-2009 1:46 PM

Hello!

<a href="forums.autosport.com/index.php phentermine from middle east pharmacy</a> ,

usaslerengalo wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-22-2009 11:29 PM

За такие посты надо награды давать, на полном серьезе!

lifeensuefe wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-22-2009 11:48 PM

You are mistaken. I suggest it to discuss. Write to me in PM, we will communicate[url=http://vkvfpdl.tripod.com/ ].[/url]

hydrochloride wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-23-2009 1:36 AM

Hello!

<a href="forums.autosport.com/index.php hydrochloride pill id</a> ,

about_phentermine wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-23-2009 1:36 AM

Hello!

<a href="forums.autosport.com/index.php phentermine</a> ,

Stainiumn wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-23-2009 2:22 AM

Автор, почему так хило обновляете сайт?

side wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-23-2009 7:34 AM
phentermine_forum wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-23-2009 7:34 AM
Marcia C wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-23-2009 10:31 AM

More far right support for the few richest and hatred of the other 99% of Americans.

Keep it up!     You won't be able to get your pols win for dog catcher.

And if you think people with brains believe all those far rightwing blogs and propaganda, aimed at making the few richer and the rest of us their servants, you are WRONG.

Marcia C wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-23-2009 10:33 AM

Clearn energy is SO evil.   We love dirty energy so the korporate gods can ruin the planet while getting more of OUR MONEY so they can live in such luxury the world has never seen before.

about wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-23-2009 11:53 AM

Hello!

<a href="portishead.forums.umusic.co.uk/.../CheapTramadolOnline944.aspx">all about tramadol depend</a> ,

of wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-23-2009 11:53 AM

Hello!

<a href="portishead.forums.umusic.co.uk/.../CheapTramadolOnline145.aspx">dosage of tramadol hydrochloride</a> ,

web wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-23-2009 11:53 AM
fact wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-23-2009 11:53 AM

Hello!

<a href="phit-n-phat.com/.../CheapPhentermineOnline544.aspx">diet fact phentermine pill</a> ,

tramadol_bipolar wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-23-2009 11:55 AM
us wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-23-2009 11:55 AM
Carol wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-23-2009 1:38 PM

I cant believe how naïve some people are they are like the 3 monkeys no see, no hear, no say… come on America take our country back before we are China that is who we keep borrowing from and when they come for their money you will think the mobsters are your best friends.

Our home is quite comfortable but to sell and have to bow to a master and make our home what he thinks they should be is ridicules. Could someone send this information to Charlie Rangel he is up a creek without a paddle if this is true!! Breaks my heart for him.

effects wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-23-2009 1:39 PM

Hello!

<a href="blogcastrepository.com/.../LowestPricesAMBIEN626.aspx">side effects of ambien weight gain</a> ,

drug wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-23-2009 1:39 PM
tramadol wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-23-2009 1:54 PM

Hello!

<a href="forums.autosport.com/index.php tramadol more addicting than darvocet</a> ,

no wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-23-2009 1:54 PM

Hello!

<a href="forums.autosport.com/index.php no scriptmg</a> ,

patient wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-23-2009 1:54 PM

Hello!

<a href="forums.autosport.com/index.php patient guidlines</a> ,

long wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-23-2009 7:36 PM

Hello!

<a href="forums.autosport.com/index.php long term effects</a> ,

long wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-23-2009 7:36 PM
cheap wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-23-2009 7:36 PM

Hello!

<a href="blogcastrepository.com/.../LowestPricesTRAMADOL140.aspx">buy cheap tramadol online</a> ,

order wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 12:12 AM

Hello!

<a href="portishead.forums.umusic.co.uk/.../CheapPhentermineOnline416.aspx">phentermine order right now free shipping 2 days delivery</a> ,

urinary wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 12:12 AM
tramadol_hcl wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 12:18 AM
wikipedia_tramadol wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 12:18 AM
drug wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 12:18 AM
order_ambien wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 1:39 AM
on wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 1:39 AM

Hello!

<a href="forums.autosport.com/index.php on line w/o prescription</a> ,

withdrawl_phentermine wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 2:25 AM

Hello!

<a href="forums.autosport.com/index.php phentermine</a> ,

to wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 2:25 AM

Hello!

<a href="forums.autosport.com/index.php to tramadol xl</a> ,

of wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 7:28 AM
without wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 7:28 AM

Hello!

<a href="collaborationproject.org/.../~cheapvalium223">valium without perscription</a> ,

with wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 7:29 AM
adverse wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 11:28 AM
for wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 11:29 AM
cheap wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 11:36 AM

Hello!

<a href="phit-n-phat.com/.../CheapTramadolOnline740.aspx">buy cheap tramadol online</a> ,

sell wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 11:36 AM

Hello!

<a href="phit-n-phat.com/.../CheapTramadolOnline740.aspx">that sell tramadol</a> ,

tramadol_sleepy wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 11:36 AM
Esotravowswak wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 11:39 AM

Good day, sun shines!

There have been times of troubles when I felt unhappy missing knowledge about opportunities of getting high yields on investments.  I was a dump and downright pessimistic person.  

I have never thought that there weren't any need in large initial investment.

Now, I'm happy and lucky , I started take up real money.

It's all about how to select a correct partner who utilizes your funds in a right way - that is incorporate it in real deals, and shares the profit with me.

You can ask, if there are such firms?  I have to tell the truth, YES, there are.  Please get to know about one of them:

[url=http://legalmoneynow.info]http://legalmoneynow.info[/url]

drug wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 12:00 PM
mg wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 12:00 PM

Hello!

<a href="www.jacksonholewy.com/.../CheapTramadolOnline634.aspx">tramadol mg pliva 616 ingredients</a> ,

tramadol_hclmg wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 12:00 PM
phentermine wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 12:07 PM

Hello!

<a href="blogcastrepository.com/.../CheapPhentermineOnline711.aspx">buy phentermine online with no rx</a> ,

tramadol_modafinil wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 12:07 PM
shipped wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 12:08 PM
prescriptions wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 12:08 PM

Hello!

<a href="blogcastrepository.com/.../CheapPhentermineOnline858.aspx">legal prescriptions online phentermine</a> ,

buy_tramadol wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 1:33 PM
tramadol wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 1:58 PM

Hello!

<a href="forums.autosport.com/index.php tramadol weight loss pill</a> ,

snort_phentermine wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 1:59 PM

Hello!

<a href="forums.autosport.com/index.php phentermine</a> ,

vicodin wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 1:59 PM

Hello!

<a href="forums.autosport.com/index.php vicodin interactio</a> ,

RichardQJ wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 7:23 PM

In it something is. Thanks for the help in this question, I too consider, that the easier the better[url=http://casino.eblogi.ru/].[/url]

phentermine wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 11:25 PM

Hello!

<a href="www.jacksonholewy.com/.../CheapPhentermineOnline120.aspx">cheapest phentermine by check</a> ,

without wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 11:25 PM
cheap wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 11:55 PM
acquiring wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 11:55 PM
phentermine_overn wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 11:55 PM
no wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 11:55 PM
abdominal wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 11:57 PM
phentermine_adivan wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 11:57 PM
warszawa wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-24-2009 11:57 PM

Hello!

<a href="blogcastrepository.com/.../CheapTramadolOnline260.aspx">samoobrona warszawa pl tramadol</a> ,

neonignee wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-25-2009 1:11 AM

Огромное спасибо! Очень помогла ваша информация!!!)))))))))))

ordering_phentermine wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-25-2009 1:31 AM

Hello!

<a href="forums.autosport.com/index.php phentermine</a> ,

ambien wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-25-2009 1:31 AM

Hello!

<a href="collaborationproject.org/.../~cheapambien117">drug ambien withdraw</a> ,

and wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-25-2009 1:31 AM

Hello!

<a href="collaborationproject.org/.../~cheapxanax209">xanax and depression</a> ,

prescription wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-25-2009 2:33 AM

Hello!

<a href="forums.autosport.com/index.php prescription phentermine purephentermine</a> ,

tramadol_scam wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-25-2009 2:34 AM

Hello!

<a href="forums.autosport.com/index.php scam</a> ,

term wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-25-2009 7:28 AM

Hello!

<a href="portishead.forums.umusic.co.uk/.../CheapPricesXANAX433.aspx">long term effects of xanax</a> ,

tramadol_mg wrote re: If You Don't Hate the Cap and Trade Bill, Let Me Show You Section 304.
on 10-25-2009 7:28 AM